Country clubs and fivesomes.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1388680981' post='8384887']
Agree on all counts. A fivesome of low index players will never play faster than a group of 4 with similar ability. And to get offended that we went around with a hole open in front? And then we leave the fivesome in the dust never to see or hear them again.
[/quote]

But that's still not true at all. Ability has very little to do with it. My father in law (who at 76 can't break 100 from 5,500 yards) will easily be around in 3 1/2 hours. He hits it, finds it, and hits it again. He knows if he can't reach a green or a group in a fairway then there is no need to wait.

One of the best players in our club however is excruciatingly methodical. He a + cap and will rarely be around in under four. Put him in a foursome of good players and put our regular group as a five some , we'll leave his group,in the dust.

Be that as it may, they should not have been offend that you went around them, they should be ashamed that you had to.

[mshills]

[quote name='highscoreinky' timestamp='1388686070' post='8385403']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1388612780' post='8380511'] i've never seen a 5some at a club, i've been a member of 3 [/quote]

Yesterday there were two groups of 8 on my home course which is a private track. After October 31st we see groups of 5, 6, 7 and yes, even 8 players.

The groups that have over 4 players always let other groups play through so it's really not a problem for them to be out.

The bigger problem is when we run into fivesomes at public courses. The norm is to go around them since most don't let you play through.
[/quote]

An eight-some? That has to be the mother of all clusters on the greens, no?

[highscoreinky]

Yes it is. Lots of footprints on the greens as they were wet from thawing out after a pretty good frost from the night before.

[eagles1]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1388680981' post='8384887']
Agree on all counts.[b] A fivesome of low index players will never play faster than a group of 4 with similar ability[/b]. And to get offended that we went around with a hole open in front? And then we leave the fivesome in the dust never to see or hear them again.
[/quote]

Respectfully disagree. "Pace of play" by the individual players as a whole dictates time. "Ability" alone does not.

[Asleep]

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Thanks, carry on.

[boriqua'72]

I sometimes play at a semi private club that allows sixsomes and sevensomes sometimes but fivesomes are a regular occurrence and my friend is the head pro and these old guys are always trying to get him to play in their groups and out of sheer embarrassment for himself and how he likes to play golf he always turns them down.

And to the guy that keeps telling him to get some friends... lol... why don't the one of two extra players get some friends to make another foursome? What do they have to hold each others hands in order to play a round of golf?

[hbear]

Don't see what the big deal is with 5somes. We play them regularly at our course and get through a round (7000 yards) walking in sub 4hours ALL the time.

Others at our club can get around in 3 if there is nobody in front of them. Only time we've EVER held anybody up was when a 2 some was playing behind us, but weekend morning with a packed tee sheet, there was no room for them to go.

Ultimately the big objection would be in respect to pace of play....but when the 5s are getting around in sub 4 hours it's not really a pace of play issue is it?

I'l take my sub 4 hour 5some to the 4:45 fourballs I see all the time at other tracks.

[callawayjay]

You will naturally play faster walking. Poor cart etiquette is the bane of the long round.

Most go shot to shot together, never once dropping off the cart partner at their ball and then going to their own. Play one. Drive across fairway and wait. Play another.

[SheriffBooth]

Fivesomes don't bug me, as long as they let the groups behind them through. I've played in groups of five before that finished in under four hours and had to wait on threesomes and foursomes - so there is some credence to the notion that the players in the group have something to do with it.

Pro shop should be responsible for the size of the groups on the course, and they should properly marshal the course. These days I'm finding myself more irritated by the pro shops refusing to force singles and twosomes to pair up than I am by groups of 5.

[callawayjay]

Part of the problem too, is that even though they could be playing fast, it's somehow an insult to the 5some that they let someone play through who could actually be playing faster. because gosh darnit...we are playing fast and we are members and we won't let you through.

[dpb5031]

We occasionally will play as a fivesome at my club if we end up with an odd number of guys in our group. The guys at another private club I used to belong to would do the same. Last winter I was a guest at Tiger's home course, Medalist, and we played as a fivesome. Matter of fact, we let Ben Curtis play through as a single on the 14th hole. I don't think fivesomes are all that uncommon at private clubs, but it goes without saying thatvyou keep up the pace and let others play through if possible.

[Kaysquare]

[quote name='SheriffBooth' timestamp='1389038556' post='8409843']
Fivesomes don't bug me, as long as they let the groups behind them through. I've played in groups of five before that finished in under four hours and had to wait on threesomes and foursomes - so there is some credence to the notion that the players in the group have something to do with it.

Pro shop should be responsible for the size of the groups on the course, and they should properly marshal the course. These days I'm finding myself more irritated by the pro shops refusing to force singles and twosomes to pair up than I am by groups of 5.
[/quote]I totally agree with you about pairing up singles & twosomes. At my club that's a real issue....we have many couples who simply refuse to pair up and our "pros" or BoD just cannot bring themselves to make it mandatory during peak times.

[hbear]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1389040798' post='8410131']
Part of the problem too, is that even though they could be playing fast, it's somehow an insult to the 5some that they let someone play through who could actually be playing faster. because gosh darnit...we are playing fast and we are members and we won't let you through.
[/quote]

That has nothing to do with 5somes and everything to do with the group. That same group you described would do the same as a 3ball....

[Mr22putt]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1388652237' post='8383403']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1388612780' post='8380511']
i've never seen a 5some at a club, i've been a member of 3
[/quote]
I haven't either, and I've played in a lot of different places.
[/quote]
Must be an Merican thing.
I've played over 4 decades and yet to see a course (private or muni) that allows 5somes in the Great White North.

I did play in a 5somes for 2 days on a muni in Yuma, AZ....the course was really busy and they wanted to jam in as many players....pace was OK....in both 5somes each day.....my wife and I played with 2 Canucks and a Merican.....snowbirds....LOL

[mshills]

[quote name='SheriffBooth' timestamp='1389038556' post='8409843']
Fivesomes don't bug me, as long as they let the groups behind them through. I've played in groups of five before that finished in under four hours and had to wait on threesomes and foursomes - so there is some credence to the notion that the players in the group have something to do with it.

Pro shop should be responsible for the size of the groups on the course, and they should properly marshal the course. These days I'm finding myself more irritated by the pro shops refusing to force singles and twosomes to pair up than I am by groups of 5.
[/quote]

Totally agree. I think fivesomes (or more) are odd, but at a private club it often works out fine -- particularly some private clubs where there are no, or very few rules. The real issue on pace of play is the parade of singles or twosomes. I hate that -- public or private course. It's a recipe for slow play and it's very easy to avoid. I moved to a new city not long ago and I find myself playing as a single more often than not. I always expect to be paired up, and I almost always request to be paired up. On a busy tee-sheet day, if the starter and the pro shop are working together and doing their jobs, there should be plenty of foursomes and threesomes. No, or very limited numbers of twosomes and no singles.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1389037994' post='8409781']
You will naturally play faster walking. Poor cart etiquette is the bane of the long round.

Most go shot to shot together, never once dropping off the cart partner at their ball and then going to their own. Play one. Drive across fairway and wait. Play another.
[/quote]

Again a generalization. People that do know how to play with a cart will naturally play faster. It just makes sense, they're going to move faster up and down fairways and between greens and tees. Poor cart etiquette is a huge problem, but those who do it right are going to move faster.

Again, it always comes down to individual groups and players within the group. Not whether the group is walking or riding or if they have four or five in the group.

[Vindog]

[quote name='SheriffBooth' timestamp='1389038556' post='8409843']
Fivesomes don't bug me, as long as they let the groups behind them through. I've played in groups of five before that finished in under four hours and had to wait on threesomes and foursomes - so there is some credence to the notion that the players in the group have something to do with it.

[b]Pro shop should be responsible for the size of the groups on the course, and they should properly marshal the course. These days I'm finding myself more irritated by the pro shops refusing to force singles and twosomes to pair up than I am by groups of 5.[/b]
[/quote]

Ding ding ding YES!!!

[Jack Pearsall]

If you're in the Fairway a lot, slow play CAN get under your skin, sometimes.
At a club you sort of don't expect the slow play you see on municiples. Or at least respectable start time seperations...

[wobgon]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1388680981' post='8384887']
Agree on all counts. A fivesome of low index players will never play faster than a group of 4 with similar ability. And to get offended that we went around with a hole open in front? And then we leave the fivesome in the dust never to see or hear them again.
[/quote]
What exactly did they do that bothered you when you went around?

[callawayjay]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1389098979' post='8414369']
[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1389037994' post='8409781']
You will naturally play faster walking. Poor cart etiquette is the bane of the long round.

Most go shot to shot together, never once dropping off the cart partner at their ball and then going to their own. Play one. Drive across fairway and wait. Play another.
[/quote]

Again a generalization. People that do know how to play with a cart will naturally play faster. It just makes sense, they're going to move faster up and down fairways and between greens and tees. Poor cart etiquette is a huge problem, but those who do it right are going to move faster.

Again, it always comes down to individual groups and players within the group. Not whether the group is walking or riding or if they have four or five in the group.
[/quote]

Play a round at St Andrews, arguably the one of the busiest and one of the most popular destinations to play golf in the world. I remember in 06, my first time there, getting a bunch of souvenir stuff in a bag that had 3:51 on it...as in pace of play. And each group on that course usually entails 4 players, 4 caddies, plus various spouses/kids and what not. A true group of 8-13 people PER GROUP....with a full tee sheet of 4 balls...All day long.

and you walk..you hit, and you all seperate to go to your ball, and you all meet again on the green, and I'll be dang if you don't get done in under 4 hours. And we aren't dealing with single digit handicaps either. Gawking, photo ops, ooohing and aaaahhhhing...4 hours.

Poor cart etiquette isn't a generalization...it's a very real problem.

[callawayjay]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1389119296' post='8416451']
[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1388680981' post='8384887']
Agree on all counts. A fivesome of low index players will never play faster than a group of 4 with similar ability. And to get offended that we went around with a hole open in front? And then we leave the fivesome in the dust never to see or hear them again.
[/quote]
What exactly did they do that bothered you when you went around?
[/quote]

chest puffs, and a bunch of WTF's??? Yes gentlemen, we are going around...

[9ccat9]

The number of players in the group is not the problem. Any group that is a hole behind the group in front of them or holding up the group behind them is causing a problem. It only takes 1 slow player to ruin a group.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1389139707' post='8418565']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1389098979' post='8414369']
[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1389037994' post='8409781']
You will naturally play faster walking. Poor cart etiquette is the bane of the long round.

Most go shot to shot together, never once dropping off the cart partner at their ball and then going to their own. Play one. Drive across fairway and wait. Play another.
[/quote]

Again a generalization. People that do know how to play with a cart will naturally play faster. It just makes sense, they're going to move faster up and down fairways and between greens and tees. Poor cart etiquette is a huge problem, but those who do it right are going to move faster.

Again, it always comes down to individual groups and players within the group. Not whether the group is walking or riding or if they have four or five in the group.
[/quote]

Play a round at St Andrews, arguably the one of the busiest and one of the most popular destinations to play golf in the world. I remember in 06, my first time there, getting a bunch of souvenir stuff in a bag that had 3:51 on it...as in pace of play. And each group on that course usually entails 4 players, 4 caddies, plus various spouses/kids and what not. A true group of 8-13 people PER GROUP....with a full tee sheet of 4 balls...All day long.

and you walk..you hit, and you all seperate to go to your ball, and you all meet again on the green, and I'll be dang if you don't get done in under 4 hours. And we aren't dealing with single digit handicaps either. Gawking, photo ops, ooohing and aaaahhhhing...4 hours.

Poor cart etiquette isn't a generalization...it's a very real problem.
[/quote]

Guess what, those people that have poor cart etiquette and slow things down.....they'll be just as slow or slower walking, Because then they'll probably all have to walk to each other's ball to watch each person hit.

Slow play is caused by one thing.....slow players. They are going to be slow no matter the circumstances. You can try to blame it anything you want, bad cart manners, courses putting too many players out, tee times too close together. It still comes back to the individual players.

[callawayjay]

So basically everyone who plays St. Andrews is fast? Each entire army of 12 every 10 minutes? Each 24 handicap that day taking photos while he played was just a fast player?

Give me a foursome walking all day and twice on Sunday.

[Shiram]

I play in a fivesome occasionally. It happens when you have five guys and not four or six.

We've always kept up with the group ahead of us. So it isn't an issue. We did it once at a course when on a trip and the starter balked at it but we said - hey, let us try, if we're slow come break us into a twosome and a threesome. Wasn't a problem. We usually have a couple of walkers mixed in with mostly cart riders.

In the Spring and Fall our club allows fivesomes (not during the summer). Members like it and I've never noticed it to slow down the course. There are slow groups - but they are slow with three guys, four guys, or five guys.

[wobgon]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1389203370' post='8422705']
So basically everyone who plays St. Andrews is fast? Each entire army of 12 every 10 minutes? Each 24 handicap that day taking photos while he played was just a fast player?

Give me a foursome walking all day and twice on Sunday.
[/quote]
Is your argument that walkers are faster in general then riders? Have you ever marshaled on a golf course? I have....Day in and day out, riders play, as a group, faster than walkers. That doesn't mean that some groups do not play faster walking than other groups riding but in general riders play faster without a doubt from what i have witnessed . Do you happen to be a walker? Where walkers play much much slower is on courses that have long stretches between the green and the next tee. I really don't think this can be argued.........By the way, I walk more than half of the rounds i play.

[jptruck]

I've seen fivesomes, sixsomes, sometimes twelvesomes (usually some sort of playoff). What the hell, it's just a game. A lot of private clubs don't get much play, and when that's the case, they allow all sorts of odd things.

If it's a Sunday morning at 10:00 in the middle of summer, it's not going to happen. If it's Tuesday at 11:30 and nobody is around, that's up to the group. Our pros manage it and it's never an issue.

When I'm at a place for an overnight with 8 or 12 guys, there's invariably two or three that don't want to play 36. We either split into two fives or one six, and play better ball, threesome versus threesome with one downs on every hole. It generally moves pretty fast because if you're out of the hole, you pick up and keep things moving. If some guy stuffs it to an inch and the rest of the group is off the green, we say nice hole and move to the next tee.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1389203370' post='8422705']
So basically everyone who plays St. Andrews is fast? Each entire army of 12 every 10 minutes? Each 24 handicap that day taking photos while he played was just a fast player?

Give me a foursome walking all day and twice on Sunday.
[/quote]

Sure you can walk St Andrews quickly, there aren't long walks between tees and greens. And what does the amount of caddies, fore caddies, spectators , dogs, what not have to do with it? Only four people are hitting shots.

But a foursome who know how to play with a cart, especially if there are any walks of any length, is going to leave you in the dust walking. Big point of emphasis on knowing how to play with the cart. Just like I said earlier there are some who don't know how, just like there are walkers who don't know how to keep pace.

[callawayjay]

My only gripe was the inability of the 5 to allow anyone through. A wide open course riders will be faster. On slower days is rather walk. Lessens the time to wait

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='callawayjay' timestamp='1389211531' post='8423603']
My only gripe was the inability of the 5 to allow anyone through. A wide open course riders will be faster. On slower days is rather walk. Lessens the time to wait
[/quote]

I agree with you 100% here. In my opinion, a five some should be even more ready to let another group through. If they even hint of holding someone up, they need to wave them through immediately.

I also agree that I like to walk, when I have the time to do so.