iron fitting question, tall player. (club weight when lengthened etc.)

[Klap]

Every fitting table made by the club manufacturers says I need extremely long and upright clubs, do they take weight and sw into account?

 

I currently own Ping s56, x100, 1 3/4th inch longer, 6 degrees upright irons, these numbers are what their fitting sheets / fitters suggest, for a 7 foot tall person. (with arms that are normal for that height.)

 

The Pings feel super heavy (as did my s58 and s59 sets.) and this causes troubles.

 

Unexpected things happen on the launch monitor when I compare my 7 iron with a standard length, 2 deg upright 7 iron. (in this case a callayway x forged, project x 6.0 flighted.)

 

The shorter iron had a 11 mph higher ss. (94 mph with the callaway 7 and 83 mph with the longer ping 7.)

Even the launch angle improved enormously. (16.4 deg with the callway and 25 deg with the ping.)

But the most important difference was the ball contact, with the lighter club it is much easier to keep the hands in front or the club at impact, my overswing tendency was totally gone and my path wasn't outside in anymore.

 

According to my pro all these things can be related with the weight or the sw of the club. The solution seems obvious, but with an 8 iron or shorter my knees get in the way with the standard length clubs, the 7 already feels like a wedge.

 

Is it possible to get closer to the standard weight and balance characteristics with clubs fitted for longer players?

 

PS1 I much prefer steel shafts in my irons, but maybe a lengthened x100 isn't the smartest option. (the 'sl x100' didn't work, maybe the heads are heavier on longer clubs?...)

PS2 the LM data is measured over many shots and was pretty consistent.

[LCP]

I play 2" to 2.25" over length in my short irons and wedges, dropping to 1.75" over length in the longer irons (and I'm only 6'5"). Ping can probably lighten the club head more than anyone, but a club like the i20's that have the adjustable weight insert provide the most flexibility. They got them as light as D7 in my 4-7 iron and D8 in my 8 iron through U wedge (by using lighter heads on longer clubs). This was with their largest grip and (slightly lighter than X100) CFS X shaft. My Gorge wedges with them are about E2 (a little longer, a little naturally heavier, and not as able to be lightened as the i20's). If I were you, I'd go at least 2.5" over length in the short clubs. Get a stiff enough shaft that it works. Sure, you'll be about an E5 or so on swing weight, but I bet you can handle it if you get used to it, especially in wedges and short clubs. E2 doesn't bother me a bit. I've even swung a long driver at E5 or so and could handle that with crushing, but intermittent, results. If you really wanted to maintain closer to "normal" weight, you'd probably need custom club heads.

[Klap]

[quote name='LCP' timestamp='1390270390' post='8498495']
I play 2" to 2.25" over length in my short irons and wedges, dropping to 1.75" over length in the longer irons (and I'm only 6'5"). Ping can probably lighten the club head more than anyone, but a club like the i20's that have the adjustable weight insert provide the most flexibility. They got them as light as D7 in my 4-7 iron and D8 in my 8 iron through U wedge (by using lighter heads on longer clubs). This was with their largest grip and (slightly lighter than X100) CFS X shaft. My Gorge wedges with them are about E2 (a little longer, a little naturally heavier, and not as able to be lightened as the i20's). If I were you, I'd go at least 2.5" over length in the short clubs. Get a stiff enough shaft that it works. Sure, you'll be about an E5 or so on swing weight, but I bet you can handle it if you get used to it, especially in wedges and short clubs. E2 doesn't bother me a bit. I've even swung a long driver at E5 or so and could handle that with crushing, but intermittent, results. If you really wanted to maintain closer to "normal" weight, you'd probably need custom club heads.
[/quote]

The weights are not coded or color coded in some way right? My sw is around E7/E8 for most mid irons with a high overall weight, I wonder if the heads can be lighter. Maybe take the weights out altogether.

A light shaft like the CFS or PXi seems a lot smarter than the x100, they don't get much heavier that that.

And indeed lengthening seems more important than lie angle for tall players if you want to swing decent.

Thanks for the tips, quite a challenge still though;)

[Sean2]

When TM built my clubs they gave me a lighter club head than the standard club head due to the added length of my clubs.

[cwbrion]

You could experiment with lighter shafts as I see the SL X100 doesn't work for you, but there are plenty of other options out there. You could also try back weighting the irons which will change the swingweight but actually add to the overall weight. To get lighter clubheads (which is probably the best choice), you would need to get the manufacturer to reduce the weight of the clubheads, or have a trusted clubmaker remove some weight from the heads.

[drvrwdge]

Ping doesnt use lighter heads the simply change the size of the insert in the tuning port. I know Mizuno has different weights headds they use for longer/shorter shafts to acheive a desire or "stock" swing weight. Apparently TM does the same thing.

At your length though I am assuming there is only so much that can be done and youre clubs will inherently be of a higher swing weight regardless. I think "stock" is considered between D0-D2 for most companies.

[HISPL]

As far as swing weight goes the 1 3/4 inch additional length will add 10.5 swing weight points.

So if you want to match out the swing weights here is a process to do it-

6 degrees upright versus the 2 degrees on the iron that you demoed will "save" 1 swing weight point.

A Project X 95 6.0 shaft versus the std model Project X will save you approx 1.5 swing weight points.

A 65g grip versus a "normal" 50g grip will save you 3 swing weight points.

If possible a reduction in head weight by 10g will save you 5 swing weight points.

So there you have a path to replicate the swing weight between a standard length club that is 2 degrees upright versus a 6 degree upright club with 1 3/4 of added length.

If the Callaway that you tested was say a D3 swing weight, the head weight would only need to be 6 grams lighter in a Ping S55 as the Ping starts out as a D1 anyway.

So it appears "possible" to achieve the swing weight goal that you have if the club needs to be D3, but 6g of weight reduction in the head is normally the difference between two clubs (5-6 iron for example, or 3-4 iron).

If Ping WRX can weight sort the heads that they have access to to get the lightest possible it could be achieved IMO.

[kloyd0306]

Six degrees upright?

It is clear that your fitter has missed fitting you correctly for length. Added to that, Ping's methodology is to increase lie angles at the expense of length. The result is that you will be crowding the ball and standing closer to the ball than a golfer a foot shorter than you are. This makes no sense.

Either way, you are not getting a set of irons that fit you well.

Golfers who are "bigger" in overall size (not just height) also tend to have dimensions that permit them to use "bigger" clubs (in this case, length). It's proportional to each golfer's physical dimensions. As another poster described above, you can use lighter shafts (Nippon makes a 75g steel shaft) and if you are "bigger", there is a chance that your hands are also bigger - mid or oversize grips will counter balance the higher swing weight you are so concerned about.

Swing weight is highly over-rated in my view. It is worthwhile as a quality control check when used for a set of clubs but every individual has "feel" preferences. The scale cannot tell you which swing weight suits you, it simply tells you where the balance point is.

The length of the shaft allows you to establish a spine angle (and knee flex angle) that you can maintain from address to impact. Lie angle is minor fine tuning.

Short irons/wedges: Your dimensions may well suggest that your #8 iron thru to your wedges are all the same length. That's not radical, it's common sense. Why would you want to struggle with the scoring clubs?

The biggest variable in fitting clubs is the golfer himself. Charts are no more than a manufacturer telling you what their limitations are. If you fall outside of their limitations, you need to look elsewhere.

[Klap]

Thanks for the advice guys! I honestly learned a few things I am going to work with!

Not sure if Ping WRX is an option since I live in Europe but I am going to have a look there.

Cheers!

[smoove]

Klap - Not a club fitter here but I am 6'5". Butt extensions of that amount on off-the-rack spec clubs never work. Light shafts AND headweights are a must for me, even in the wedges and putter so that the total weight AND swingweight work out. I know you didn't like the DGSLs but they have made the game much more comfortable for me. May want to give them a second chance with lightweight heads. Also the suggestion about longer short irons and shorter long irons is solid. Check out some of Tom Wishon's posts regarding 3/8" length increments as it relates to this.

Edited for grammar.

[gibby777]

Several manufacturers offer lighter weight heads for over standard length irons. Mizuno is the first to come to mind as I believe they have 3 different weight heads. Ping WRX is great on custom options and very well might have some lighter weight head options as well. You could try counter balancing with some weight under the grip as well to change swingweight. This will increase overall static weight. Playing that much over standard will always make swingweight an issue, but there are some fixes that have been mentioned that should help.

[Klap]

[quote name='smoove' timestamp='1390351636' post='8504999']
Klap - Not a club fitter here but I am 6'5". Butt extensions of that amount on off-the-rack spec clubs never work. Light shafts AND headweights are a must for me, even in the wedges and putter so that the total weight AND swingweight work out. I know you didn't like the DGSLs but they have made the game much more comfortable for me. May want to give them a second chance with lightweight heads. Also the suggestion about longer short irons and shorter long irons is solid. Check out some of Tom Wishon's posts regarding 3/8" length increments as it relates to this.

[/quote]


Total weight indeed is something not to be overlooked! I will give the DG sl shafts a second try. (Only once tried them in the middle of a trainings session with my own clubs, while timing probably changes quite a bit, that takes time.)

Also I will try to find out how much lighter ping can make the s55 heads and maybe if other brands have more to offer here.

[LCP]

[quote name='drvrwdge' timestamp='1390312463' post='8500393']
Ping doesnt use lighter heads the simply change the size of the insert in the tuning port.
[/quote]

That's what I really meant.

[smoove]

[quote name='LCP' timestamp='1390356107' post='8505637']
[quote name='drvrwdge' timestamp='1390312463' post='8500393']
Ping doesnt use lighter heads the simply change the size of the insert in the tuning port.
[/quote]

That's what I really meant.
[/quote]

btw, anyone know how much ping charges for this service? ballpark estimate is fine.

[LCP]

On the initial order, it's free. You just spec the desired swing weight and they try to get it. I asked them to try and get D4 or D6 if I recall correctly, and D7/D8 was supposedly the best they could do at the length I ordered.

[mokedaddy]

[quote name='smoove' timestamp='1390359030' post='8505963']
btw, anyone know how much ping charges for this service? ballpark estimate is fine.
[/quote]

It's right around $13 a club plus shipping to have your weights and lie angles changed.

[Klap]

[quote name='mokedaddy' timestamp='1390362527' post='8506409']
[quote name='smoove' timestamp='1390359030' post='8505963']
btw, anyone know how much ping charges for this service? ballpark estimate is fine.
[/quote]

It's right around $13 a club plus shipping to have your weights and lie angles changed.
[/quote]

Wouldn't they make them as light as possible once you go above D6 or into the E weights? When you have a set with high E's for example I don't think they can lighten it anymore because they would have done that at the initial order without asking.

[Klap]

Here is the link to Tom Wishon his very educative topic Smoove referred to on this matter: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/664636-proper-length-fitting-how-it-needs-to-be-done/page__hl__%2038%20%20length%20%20increments