Stuart_G

No. That's because they are designed for very different head weights and playing lengths - so 1) you wont be able to actually find two from each category that really do match. and 2) even if you could find a match - they wouldn't even come close to feeling similar. If you tried to put a shaft in your driver that matched your iron shaft, it would feel like rebar. And those two things don't even consider possible differences in the swings, mechanics, or thoughts. Some people think matching just the shape of the EI profile will get you close enough - but the shape is actually is meaningless. It's the actual values that matter.

Sorry, it's not something I've looked into since I never put both in the bag at the same time. For a particular course, if I plan to use it mostly off the tee (tight courses), I'll use the 3wd. If I'll expect to need it more off the fairway, I'll use the 5wd. Plus I loft them both up so it's more like a 4wd and 6wd.

Certainly feel and confidence in that feel is an important aspect of shaft fitting. But when done right, the two should never be in conflict with each other. When it comes to shaft "fit" and looking at the numbers, launch and spin are not the indicators that dictate a good fit or not. So even when ignoring feel, it's always better to fit shafts based on dispersion, consistency of face impact, accuracy, and shot shape control. Shafts usually should not be used to fit for launch and spin. Save the head and loft selection for that. Note 1: that also assumes that the player is properly fit properly into shaft weight and head weight before you can even start to looking at different stiffness profiles or flexes. Note 2: Sometimes (especially slower folks) might want to find a balance between consistency/control and swing speed if they think they want a bit more speed and are willing to pay the price in consistency (if there even is a price).

The vast majority of am's wont notice the difference.

I'm a big proponent of cutting down all the longer clubs (drivers, fairways, and hybrids). Stock lengths generally are too long for most ams. BTW stock lengths are not really any kind of standard IMO, they just change way too much. Personally I play 3wd at 42.5" and 5wd and 42" (although not at the same time - only one is in the bag at a time). A 1/2" length difference is pretty traditional so not sure if that counts as "closer in length compared to standard" since I have no idea which "standard" your referencing. Never done it but as long as you properly adjust the head weights, I don't see any significant potential problems to even having a 3wd match a 5wd in length. It may or may not effect your distance gaps - so go ahead and feel free to play around by choking up before actually doing any cutting.

Biggest problem converting between standard length and one length heads is the head weight. Lie angle is not as much of a big deal and usually easy to adjust. A one length 5 iron will be heavier than a standard 5 iron. For the Cobra - which are designed for 7-iron length, that means it's probably about 14 gm heavier than a standard 5 iron or utility. I can't say for sure but I would not expect it to be easy (if it's even possible) for the average person to get it down to the weight it needs to be for playing at normal 5i lengths. Not sure I understand the second question. The Cobra Utility irons don't use an adapter, only the hybrids do. But regardless if a head is designed to use an adapter, you need to use the correct adapter. You can't glue a shaft in where an adapter is supposed to go. You should be able to use a wide range of shafts in that adapter, but you still need the adapter.

Not sure I'd put much faith in those AoA numbers. Garmin doesn't even bother to include it in it's accuracy numbers for the unit. https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=kj37CgzvwM98hC9WPrIQm5

Sorry but 1 in 5 doesn't even come close to making it an outlier. It just means it's more likely related to the different (heavier) head weight and/or shorter playing length (or combination - swing weight). Probably not but you haven't answered Howard's questions about how the frequency was measured: That would be needed if you want to dig any deeper into why. And even then it might just be related to the design of that particular shaft model. Although to be honest, that's really a pointless quest. You still seem to be putting more meaning into the results than they deserve.

Sorry don't have a link - but I do remember someone posting about a DIY version of a stand somewhat recently (within the last year or so). Don't rember if was specficially a swivel type of base or not. Have you tried to use the search functionality? Not a swivel but here's one DIY stand thread:

1) THERE IS NO ONE SINGLE STANDARD FOR FLEX and butt frequency is actually a terribly inaccurate representation of how a shaft will feel or perform. Butt frequency can be useful but only in a very limited context - such as matching a new build to an old build that's exactly the same in every other way, checking for asymmetric bending properties of a shaft, and maybe matching stiffness for the irons within a set. 2) There are many different variations in how butt frequency can be measured - all of which can have significant effect on the resulting frequency. So the details of the method used to measure frequency is VERY important before looking at any of the (many) charts that might be out there. clamp size clamp pressure grip on or off (it really should always be off - yet people keep trying to get measurements with a grip still on the shaft). length between clamp and head head weight (or swing weight) Even when shaft companies (or good builders) do use butt frequency as a (very) rough guide to flex, all those things above are standardized. They are NOT measuring a built club. They are measuring the uncut shaft with no grip, a very specific clamp and clamp pressure, with the clamp in a very specific location on the butt (distance from the weight), and with a very specific weight attached to the tip. All of which is likely very different from what was being measured with your club. So, sorry to say, the measurement was likely a waste of time - unless maybe you just wanted the value to blueprint the club to be able to reproduce it in a replacement build. It's not telling you anything about the flex of the shaft or how it will feel or perform. If you want that, just go hit it and see how it feels. That's the only thing that matters. A little more additional reading on point #1 if you're interested. https://www.golfwrx.com/73753/wishon-shaft-frequency-can-be-misleading/

Sorry, can't say how similar they are. Just based on the marketing info, I'd guess it's more likely between the Blue and the Red - maybe closer to the Red. But that's only a guess. But (unfortunately) the only way to know how it will feel and perform for you (dispersion, launch/spin, accuracy, shot shape control, face impact consistency) is to find some way to test it out. That's the way it is for any shaft and any player. Fortunately, it's a pretty inexpensive option to buy and test out so pretty low risk relative to many other shaft options. FWIW, I like it now, particularly for fairways. It's a solid shaft if you like softer tip profiles and it also had a butt/middle that was softer than most of the other Aldila offerings.

Not surprising. It's not something the average builder/fitter would know about nor is it something the average player would even notice if it was done. That's exactly why it is the general recommendation. But that doesn't make it any more firm than just being a recommendation. This forum caters to more than just average players and we also like to expand people knowledge and understanding well beyond what's considered average.

Fairly middle of the road WTF - I play LW/SW at 35.5" and AW/PW at 35.75" and then to 9i at 36" I wouldn't worry too much as long as you've properly addressed the swing weight - and even that is pretty minor for 1/4". It's a pretty minor change. Can't say I notice the difference during the swing itself - but over a range session or a round it does reduce the stress on the back a bit - at least for me. The key to wedge length is just making sure you don't go too short - that's where the real problems can come into play. Above that there really is a lot of wiggle room to play with where you generally wont see any major effects. Worst case isn't even that bad, just choke up that 1/4" 🙂

No. I have enough to think about getting ready to play and adjsting to day to day differences - that would just make it worse for me. Plus (again for me) stifferent stiffness profiles no longer do much to effect or change my swing - or the ball flight results. Only weight really matters and there is no benefit to changing it for me. But the emphasis is on "for me" for all that. No. Just atypical. If you have fun playing around and testing out different ideas - go for it. I might not recommend it for those that are on the more sensitive side for how the stiffness profile effects their swing due to how it can mess with sequencing and release timing - but that's not really all that large a percentage of individuals - so you just never know.

I'm glad it was helpful - but I noticed you're using plural pronouns. if you are ordering more than one wedge, why not just start with getting one and see how it goes before you get the rest? Then if there is an issue, it's only one that needs to be fixed. That's the general recommendation but there are ways around it that are considered a more advanced skill. For the more sensitive individuals you can usually get away with 1/4" to 3/8" tipping in most cases into a tapered hossel. And you could also potentially tip a taper tip shaft it more if you are willing to bore out the hossel to .370." And that's just with respect to steel shafts. With graphite shafts you can usually get away with 1/2" and just add the taper back to the tip.

Sorry, I really do wish I could give you a better answer. Even from a purely data point of view, for some it will be for others it wont. Where you sit I can't say. To look at it in a more practical manner - basically no matter what you choose there will be risk and there is no way to quantify that risk or determine which choice is the higher risk. However counterintuitive it might feel - just pick one. Throw a pair a dice if you have to 🙂 Regardless, either way you'll learn something about your needs and preferences so it will not be a total waste of time.

Just an aside, some people think all DG "wedge" shafts are s200 - but that's not actually true. Each club company can make it whatever they want. Some do s200's, some actually do s300's and that isn't the only two possibilities. So it couldn't hurt to actually check with the company for more clarity on exactly which DG shaft they use. I know that is a common conversation - but your experience with the existing DG wedge shafts hints at the fact that that might not be a good approach for you. But as I said before, you just never know. I was going to say, reshaftiing steel shafts is one of the easiest places to start if you go down that road. But even if you don't do it yourself, maybe you can find a builder near by that can do it for you after you buy the shaft. But I understand the frustration of not being able to do proper demo/testing before purchasing. About 20 years ago, to find the right iron shaft, I had to buy about 5-6 different single shafts to build my own test clubs to figure it out.

Only you with actual comparative testing will be able to determine how significant or negligible it might be. There is no way for us to judge how sensitive to different options you might be when we only have one single data point to work from with your wedges. Any attempt at extrapolation requires more than that single data point. What I'm really saying is that until you actually are able to test the x100 in the wedges, there is no reason to think or even believe you might need a middle ground. Based on what you've told us so far, the only thing we know (or believe) is that x100 works well in your irons and s200 doesn't work well in your wedges. Or to ask it a different way, if the softer (relative to x100) s200 works so poorly, why would you want to find a softer solution than the x100 straight in? Particularly since it will already be slightly softer in the wedges than it is in the rest of the irons.

Unfortunately, with the subjective influences of the human factor, such extrapolation is rarely very reliable. However, considering the difference between s200 and s400 is not really all that large (to many) , I might be a little more concerned about the possibility that the s400 might not be a good fit. So if you're sure the stiffness is a big part of the problem, it's probably much less risky to go with the x100 instead of the s400.

Make sure it really is the lighter weight and not the softer flex that is causing that ballooning. You can take some lead tape and wrap it around the shaft about 4"-6" below the bottom of the grip to test out how a heavier shaft might effect the results. If it is the shaft weight, sometimes increasing the swing weight can help compensate and delay the release to prevent the ballooning. Check the swing weights - but regardless of the current value, you can still play around with some lead tape added to the head to see what happens. ~2 gm increments is usually a good starting point. That will bring the cut shaft weight down to the same as you're getting with s200's - if not a bit lower. I'd try the x100's straight in before considering any kind of stepping. The heavier head weights of the wedges is going to effectively soft step when using the 9/W shaft straight in - compared to what you're getting for performance in the rest of the set.

It's very subjective and also dependent on your mechanics - but 1 soft step is generally considered only a very minor and subtle tweak to the stiffness feel. Many am's wouldn't even notice the difference in a side-by-side comparison. It doesn't really work that way. Stepping vs going down in flex are two ways to get a softer feel but they do it in very different ways that effect different parts of the shaft. Going down in flex is changing the stiffness along the whole shaft. While stepping generally only significantly effects the tip stiffness and leaves the butt and mid of the shaft as an x-stiff. Now you might or might not be able to get a similar feel by stepping but there is no way for anyone else to predict if it will work for you or how many steps it will take. It would take some experimentation. Now, someone will most likely come around and throw you the old adage of "3 steps equals 1 flex" but IMO that's really a useless and completely unreliable over simplification. Not only don't you need to, you should not tip trim unless you know what you are doing. Any more than a 1/4" to 3/8" will not allow full insertion of the shaft into the hossel unless you bore out the hossel to .370.

As a very vague and rough guesstimate on how the feel might change between the different shafts. Nothing more - different people interpret feel from different shaft profiles differently. What you feel may match or be different from the chart. Then the charted effect on launch and spin can pretty much be ignored - that's even less accurate and reliable than the feel aspect of the chart.

Sorry, that's not really correct. Shafts don't "need" to be loaded at all and swing speed has nothing to do with it. How much the shaft loads has no direct contribution to the ball flight other than a small change in dynamic loft - and only for those with a late enough release. However, that doesn't mean they may not be too stiff for the OP. That could be true - but for slightly different reason. Too stiff or too soft is not directly about the amount of loading. It's about how the players swing changes with the different stiffness or loading feels. e.g. some might try and force the shaft to load more than it would with there normal swing if they are used to or expecting to feel more loading. And that attempt to force the loading could mess with the swing and delivery. Hard to say without more information. Just not enough to really say what the problem might be. Is there any other difference between the sets besides the shaft? Is the swing weight, grip and playing length the same as the DG set? How did the club head speed change? How did ball speed change? How did the trajectory (launch and spin) change? Did impact tape or foot powder spray show that you were having problems with hitting the center of the face? Even some info on how they felt to you compared to the older shafts might be helpful.

Heads that use adapters and those that don't have very similar BBGM. In many cases it will be the same. But keep in mind that just switching between different heads (regardless of whether adapters are used or not) can result in some change to the resulting playing length (either shorter or longer). However, if it does change, it usually wont be very much (< 1/2") as long as you're not switching between a bore through head and a standard bore head.

Unfortunately, with such a large change in shaft weight, it really can't. The only way to get that answer is to get out to the range with a test club with the DG shaft and some lead tape and do some actual feel (and performance) based testing. Not to belabor the point, but those reasons are exactly why it's impossible for anyone else to provide any reliable or even useful estimate. It's definitely not overthinking. Getting the swing weight right can be important (more so for some than the others). It's just your expectations of what the "experts" can help you with is a bit over inflated. There are no short cuts to avoid you having to actually hit a club with the shaft to get the answers. The only thing I will say, is that if there is no chance of you being able to do the necessary testing or self-fitting of the swing weight before you make the order, it's better to err on the side of being a bit too light than a bit too heavy for swing weight. And the ONLY reason I say that is that it's much easier for the average player to add head weight after the build is done than remove it (lead tape on head or lead/tungsten powder down the shaft and corked). The other option is to just order a single club first - maybe a mid iron. Usually the cost per club doesn't change based on how many you order. Do the testing on that first club and use the results to order the rest of the set.