virtuoso

We're just asking questions, People!

I've got a call in to Jon Sinclair to help me chip down my 14. If he leaves me hanging, I'm calling Erica.

All good players move everything left and then dump their shoulders right. This is covered in the infamous (but controversial) video series: Legends of the Fall.

Of course, I’m not saying it’s bad. I’m just saying there are no secrets. Everyone can’t wait to tell you what they think.

You know how I feel, GRF measurements are critical, but can sometimes be overrated.

Oh, that’s easy. There are no conspiracies. Everyone is too dumb, and no one can keep a secret. Look at your own posts—you can’t help but tell everyone that will ever visit this forum everything that is crossing your mind at every moment. ….but I do enjoy hearing people talk about them. 🙂

Oooh, juicy. Now that this thread has dipped into the conspiratorial, its regained my interest.

Well, I’m talking more about beginners and how they can accidentally make the wrong strategy decisions that have huge implications on their long term development. Specific to the OP, he’s a healthy male in his mid to late 20’s that wants to ultimately play at a high level and is only swinging his iron 70 mph. He doesn’t know how to make the “wooosh”. He needs to learn the whoosh now, and immediately get to around 85 mph. Then he can start refining the pieces. He won’t be able to learn the whoosh later and introduce it into his golf swing because at that point the wooshless motor pattern will not let him. He will be a prisoner in a cage of his own making.

Cool, I think we've both explained our point of view thoroughly enough.

I've got you covered.

No question. ...because understanding and training the kinematic chain allows you to swing "fast" without feeling like you are swinging "hard."

Well, I think what you’re saying is that he should stay on the current path but try to communicate with the teacher better. This is your advice about becoming his own best advocate. He will definitely get better doing this, but sometime after learning to shoot somewhere in the 90’s, he will run into some pretty severe roadblocks. One of these roadblocks will be slow clubhead speed and the other one will be the impact alignments: too much dynamic loft at impact with an overly shallow angle of attack. These two things work in concert with each other. This is almost a stone cold certainty. The despair part comes when either the current instructor or a new instructor shows him the level of motor pattern re-engineering he’s going to have to do to reach his new goals. I’d like for him to not have to go through that because it’s almost un-fixable at that point. The issue with yours and my debate is that we have such fundamentally different views about how to build a high level golf swing that maybe we should just agree to disagree?

Yep, once someone can put some raw speed on the club, we slow things down and start refining the pieces.

Did you see the first word on the graph title? This is the entirety of the research material. BTW, I am making it humorous, but I’m deadly serious. I’m not giving him bad advice for fun. I don’t sabotage people for fun. Bottom line, if you learn to make micro swings first…..and start making them a little bigger, and a little bigger…..and finally get to a point where you can hit an 8 iron 120 yards, kinda solid but scoopy, but kinda reliable…..and then you decide: “Hey, I’d like to learn to hit this thing 150! I’m still on the forward tees and can’t hit any greens in regulation!”…..it’s essentially going to be too late. All the instructors that have people make little tiny swings with the wrong sequence, that can’t effectively be developed into a bigger, faster swing, forget to tell their students that they themselves didn’t learn that way. And 99% of their students will never be as good as them. If you want to acquire the skill of good players that learned as a kid….then learn like a kid.

Yeah, another great vid from AMG. If this thread goes the same way another AMG thread went….in 5 pages, we’ll understand it less than we do now.

Yeah, after experts speak, the amateur commentary following that presentation is more likely to confuse the issue than add clarity. The AMG guys have taken complicated measurements and made it about as simple as it can be translated. There’s only one direction ignorant people can take it from there.

So Rinker would have won more on Tour if he had learned this sooner?

It was sarcasm mixed with an inside joke.

Apparently you didn’t see my follow up.

Yeah, too early. Needs to wait until it becomes vintage chic…..then the upper core 20 hdcp’s can go back to humping the pee out of it.

Yeah, Monte and I have already argued about it.

Oh, I thought you had gotten to experience the secret handshake.

He would do this left shoulder shrug to start the backswing that would make the club unrecoverable after that.

I haven’t followed the channel much, but it seems that the instructors don’t really diagnose him specifically as much as the session is about: “Hey, try this special thing I teach to everybody.” There were some really basic golf instruction 101 things he was doing a few years ago and none of the instructors would ever address them.

Sunday, do you know Mchatton?